Apocalypse (1983): Terrible UI and stale gameplay packaged in one successful game!
When the gods command you to liberate the island of Hispaniola from the savage presence then that's what you will do if it would mean the death of you.
So Neo-Mayans continue their futile attempts to liberate Port-au-Prince; on turn 2 I attacked with 5 against 1 and on turn 3 with 8 against 2. On both occasions computer rolled the same number for attacker and defender thus causing heavy losses for Mayans and none to the defender. Very frustrating.
This means that 4 attackers against a city have 100% chance of losing - even though "technically" you can attack. Same with my attack of 3 guys against an urban terrain. Even 5 attackers against a city is 50/50.
I don't think it is that simple. When attacking a city with 4 units I had 2 attacking options which gives the 50/50 chance. So I think the max strategy number is troop size +1. When attacking with 5 units I had startegy options 4,5, and 6. So logically that would mean that on urban terrain it would be enough to have 3 units to have 2 attacking options. But your experience on urban fighting makes you wonder does the game handle cities differently in combat.
I encountered also the attacker moving all units after combat despite occupy command while testing the game. It must be a bug.
I don't think we'll manage to finish this: but I want to share with our three readers how the manual is written:
Little more than the order of turns is random. Combat between generals is an eye to eye affair. The commitment of forces is made and the battle rages. The players have total control over the outcome.
For me the combat feels like the opposite of having control of the outcome, being at the mercy of the RNG, which makes me to believe that the writer of the manual didn't have any personal experience of playing the game.
I took time to read about the board game and my theory was wrong; Redshift didn't try to replicate it but re-tweaked and re-balanced it. One of the issues with the board game was that first player had an advantage, so I can understand what was attempted here by reducing the resources for the first turn. Might not have been the best way to handle it. An other issue was that game can easily end up in stalemate. I think that re-tweaking the rules how nuclear weapons operate is an attempt to avoid stalemates. We will see how it works...
I encountered also the attacker moving all units after combat despite occupy command while testing the game. It must be a bug.
I don't think it's a bug as much as it's bad UI in the computer game - I've just run some tests, and the by comparing the results of my test to the rules chart posted by Porkbelly, I think I can confidently say the following:
When initiating the attack, the exact choice of the movement command _does not matter_. What actually _matters_ is the number selected - this is the real "commitment" of the attack. If the attack fails, this is the number of losses; if the attack succeeds, it is the number of units that get moved into the new territory. This is both exactly the outcome that the rules of the board game posted by Porkbelly explain!
This has a few implications:
You need at least _5_ units in the attacking territory to have a chance of capturing a center (white tile, port/city). As explained, the exact movement order chosen doesn't matter; in this case, the attacked will have a choice of either 4 or 5 as the "strategy" (which is really "how many divisions to commit"). With 4 units in the attacking territory, the only option available will be 4, which means the defender will always guess correctly.
You need at least _4_ units in the attacking territory to have a chance of capturing an "urban" area (yellow tile). This seems to remove only "strategies" 1 and 2, so with 4 units in the attacking territory the attacker will have a choice of 3 or 4 and a 50/50 chance to lose everything or have some success.
Both underestimating and overestimating the attack seems to be resulting in at least some losses to the attacker, which contradicts the *.txt file with instructions provided with the game, but I didn't do any thorough testing of this particular part.
This also means that selecting the "strategy" number equal to the number of units on the attacking tile can actual wipe them out completely (even when selecing "occupy" move or something). This is especially important on Haiti, where attacking from Port-au-Prince into Santo Domingo (or vice-versa) can wipe out the attackers completely and leave the city undefended and ripe for the taking if RNG selects number in an unfortunate way. To protect against this, attacker needs at least 10 units in the attacking tile (as the highest available "strategy" number is 9).
Oh, and one more thing that I'm not sure if everybody already noticed: you can happily deploy armies at any controlled tile, not only in the cities. This means that as long as the Commies hold at least one tile in Texas, they can pop 10 armies there in an instant!
Quote from KarbonKitty on 8 May 2024, 17h31Oh, and one more thing that I'm not sure if everybody already noticed: you can happily deploy armies at any controlled tile, not only in the cities. This means that as long as the Commies hold at least one tile in Texas, they can pop 10 armies there in an instant!
Oh gosh
We're so back
Dallas is reconquered thanks to a swift Manhole assault! The Underground Union can only hope the freedom-loving Neo-Mayans and Genars will help avoiding Total Scribe Domination. Ancient tech is being taken from underground vaults, said to be powerful enough to stop even the mightiest armies....
Thanks to everyone for explaining further the game to me. The "deploy anywhere" rule is kind of insane, it means Scribe needs to purge everyone and purging everyone is insanity because a single troop can cause disproportionate damage. The hell.
Quote from KarbonKitty on 8 May 2024, 17h31
I don't think it's a bug as much as it's bad UI in the computer game - I've just run some tests, and the by comparing the results of my test to the rules chart posted by Porkbelly, I think I can confidently say the following:
When initiating the attack, the exact choice of the movement command _does not matter_. What actually _matters_ is the number selected - this is the real "commitment" of the attack. If the attack fails, this is the number of losses; if the attack succeeds, it is the number of units that get moved into the new territory. This is both exactly the outcome that the rules of the board game posted by Porkbelly explain!
That makes sense now, and just proves the design of this UI to be even more idiotic. I had used occupy command for attacking with the idea of leaving one unit behind, but that one unit was counted as part of the attacking force and increasing the number of attack strategies, which explains the differences we have seen. Very unintuitive design and the manual really doesn't explain these things.
The Mayan priests pray for guidance from the gods, and receive a vision which tells that a gift of gold would help to receive the needed divine boost to conquer Hispaniola. So while the forces there are left to be reformed, an expedition party is formed and sent to South America to search for...
During turn 4 the expedition reached the capital of Bolivia Colombia (of course), Bogota. There they encountered a group of savage pagans who were driven out of the city...
It's interesting that battle report doesn't show any casualties for the defender eventhough I conquer the city.
After the trecherous neo-Mayans strike at Bogota, the peace-loving and entirely defensively minded Kingdom of Genar sets up an enchanced defensive perimeter around it's southern cities, in an attempt to safeguard the people of the Kingdom against being sacrificed on the stepped pyramids, or whatever it is that the neo-Mayans would do to them.
Oh, and, of course, another small detachment also liberates the Mexico City from the clutches of the heathens, losing several divisions in the process - but it's going to be worth it for sure, just to see the relief on the faces of the young mothers who will no longer need to worry if the sacrificial press gangs will take their children! Also, 8 points of revenue!
Some villages and towns in Mexico and Panama get taken over as well. It's important to protect the countryside as well!
The battle-ravaged Texas is struck again as Houston is freed again. Sadly, the desperate dash towards New Orleans by the Fourth Maneater Guard Division is stopped by stubborn Scribe defenders. It is said that weapons of untold power are being brought back to life there, but we'll have to deal with the consequences....
I tested some nukes after discovering that the Scribe has built one. I have only one thing to say: what the fuck. My run towards New Orleans was terrible, but hey, I tried.
I skipped turn 3, so doing it now:
Turn 3
A difficult turn for historiography! The Genarids take Panama while the mole-men return to Dallas!
I try to cut the UGSSR's economic basis by attacking Miami, to no avail!
So mostly a lost turn for me, though I send some scribes to document what the pollen looks like in various new regions.
Turn 4
The Genarids are trying to mount all the other factions against me, but the Neo-Mayan maintain their non-aggression pact and open a new front in the South. That was very necessary, as the UGSSR Commies retook Houston and moved on New Orleans again.
A prompt counter-attack returns the situation to the one in "quarter 10", whatever that means. House Ton and Dallas are mine again:
I confirm: being able to build units ANYWHERE is crazy...
The Mayan Intelligence Service, MI6, discovered that the terrorist kingdom of Genar had smuggled nuclear weapons to the San Juan against the will of the local population and as direct violation of UN rules. We revived a consultant from cryo-chamber and sent him to plead our case:
After that Neo-Mayan forces launched a UN sanctioned counter-terrorism operation on San Juan.
After a fierce battle with heavy losses all the terrorists were wiped out and the nuclear weapon secured. An existential threat averted at least for now...
The 1st Genar Army marched against the... (nervously checks Google Earth) Monterrey today, but the godless Scribes, ambushing our divisions from their libraries and printer shops, have stopped the holy soldiers of Genar from liberating the city from their grasp and bringing the light of Genar to their homes.
The 2nd Genar Army sailed against the Kingston, with the same goal, and, crushingly, the same result [1] - the remains of the 2nd Army have deployed into Cuba, to bring the poor peasants struggling under the Communist rule for decades the light of Genar, for a low, low price of paying the taxes into Genar coffers.
The King of Genar strongly rejects any suggestion that the nuclear weapon was constructed in any Genar city; it is obvious that the heathen, illiterate, human-sacrificing monsters of the neo-Mayan Empire not only stabbed us in the back, but also brought the nuclear device with them in order to perform a smear campaign accusing the peace-loving glorious Genar of wrongdoing! Also, it was to be used against the Scribes!
[1] I've made the mistake of trying to attack from the sea, forgetting that this gives two guesses for the defender - should have landed in rural Jamaica and attacked from there.
Where am I?
This weird dream again, deja-vu.
It is true that you conquered Dallas and Houston, yet you do not collect their revenues.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN
You need to escape the Cycles of Revenue.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND
THERE'S NOTHING TO UNDERSTAND JUST PRESS CTRL+P!
THERE'S NOTHING TO UNDERSTAND NOTHING MAKES ANY SENSE
I swear this game is wearing me down. Pardon me for the incredibly stupid larping (hopefully people have played EYE) but I'm seriously getting Groundhog Day vibes.
Turn 5
The war in Texas carries on. Dayyalu got particularly lucky this turn, pushing me by 4 tiles despite relatively meagre reinforcements.
Anyway, I started nukin'
In Texas, I am not as lucky as Dayyalu was. Like: not at all.
That's the second time it happens!
I still take House Ton, but that's all for me. I expand in other directions:
More glorious Genar conquest this time!
The 1st Genar Army, rebuild after recent losses, takes Monterrey losing only a single division this time, and spreads out to build a new wall on the Texas-Mexico border, this time to keep the flow of the Commies and Scribes from the North contained. Unfortunately, the strike against the single division of Scribes on the coast fails, and the threat within remains for yet another quarter.
The 2nd Genar Army, reinforced after a nuclear strike devasted Cuba, strikes against Havana, but with no success - two smaller attacks both result in catastrophic losses, leading the protests of the streets of the capital, proclaiming that the King is not as lucky as the previous belief had him be, just as he points to the chart of number going up and with the exclamation of "Economy, stupid!" points out that Genar has taken over the Scribes as the most... (checks notes) second most advanced nation economically?
Guys, I think we let the neo-Mayans make one human sacrifice too many.
While the confiscated nuclear weapon was being inspected and confirmed to be a short-range tactical warhead (unlike the Genarians claimed) reports were starting to arrive telling a story of a shockwave and mushroom cloud in the sky. Shocked by this turn of events Mayans put a hold on all military operations and send search-and-rescue teams to investigate what has happened and are there any survicors to be found. The teams reach the southern Florida when the geiger counters start to go crazy.
With heavy hearts we have to report that not a single living creature was found in the city. We have left a team of investigators there to collect evidence and to comb the countryside for any possible survivors even if there´s not much hope left.
Has this been an omen of an approaching apocalypse and can the neo-Mayans stop it this time from happening. Stay tuned...
I got a nuke in New Orleans. The price was high but at least the Robes won't nuke innocents again.
Let me see if I'm reading this right, combat is so lopsided in favor of defense that it makes the space game we played before look balanced, at least until someone gets nukes, at which point it all goes to hell.
Wow.
Quote from Morpheus Kitami on 12 May 2024, 16h36Let me see if I'm reading this right, combat is so lopsided in favor of defense that it makes the space game we played before look balanced, at least until someone gets nukes, at which point it all goes to hell.
Wow.
Honestly, it is more balanced than Nebula. In Nebula, you could not realistically attack. In Apocalypse, you can attack everywhere provided you have 1 unit already (from which you can build more), but you can lose everything on a bad roll!
Turn 6
We bid goodbye to the Cuban Genars. Attacking in green terrain starts the number at 1, so for the first time I only lose one guy on the attack. I did not know it was even possible.
With all the extra troops I did not consume, I fortify Cuba fully and can even take some pointless islands here and there, before resuming the pointless tug-of-war in Texas and recovering my pointy nuke in New Orleans. I feel my situation improves relatively to Dayyalu over time, so I should win this?
Because Nicaragua had fallen under the rule of reincarnation of Sandinistas, the Underground Communists, neo-Mayans had been covertly transferring weapons to local anti-Sandinistas. At last the Contras were ready to start the anti-revolution operation:
While the attack on Managua was a close battle and the Contras suffered heavy casualties, we can happily inform that Nicaragua has been liberated from the communist rule and they have decided to join the free world.
Last pockets of resistance from the note-takers in the northern Mexico are eradicated[1], and the wall on the Tex-Mex border reinforced with more border patrols. This should serve them right for massacring the good Cuban patriots in the Bay of Pigs!
As the war in Texas rages on, the enlightened armies of Genar march south-east, taking over almost-undefended Belize, and capturing some more rural ground here in there in the south (including an island that I am going to assume is Ile a Vache?) to prepare a thrust agains the neo-Mayans, since it seems that everybody else is too busy with themselves to gang up on an obvious leader. Seriously, what the heck, world leaders!
[1] Actually winning with no losses; attack was 5-1 odds on the plains, so that seems like a pretty good result overall. I don't think it's possible to take 0 losses when attacking a city, even with 9-1 odds, but I did not test this.