Apocalypse (1983): Terrible UI and stale gameplay packaged in one successful game!
Turn 14
Not sure about what's happening in Central America, and how Genar could lose a nuke to the fledging UGSSR, but so be it.
On my side, I premare my final actions against the Sea Mayans:
The "naval" battles are costly, and the invasion even more so, but even landings have 2/3 chances of working, so it's just a matter of having enough soldiers to, well, soldier it.
Eventually, the Carribeans are mine, and the Mayans blockaded!
As the Neo-Mayans lose our last outposts in the Caribbean, all we can do is to keep pushing Genar away from South America. Since all the intelligence reports point to the direction that the lunatic Scribes are planning to annihilate all of the South America with massive nuclear strike, we have decided to start a building project in the Andes with hope that some Mayan presence would survive to rise again in some other game.
I had earlier thought that South America would make an excellent defense base, but this was a very frustrating turn, because with these resources I just can't prevent the invasion by Scribes. And it doesn't help that my puny navy in the Caribbean is completely useless.
The Genarites eat nuclear hellfire that they summoned themselves. Sadly, the limited forces of the Underground Resistance can't be spared for freeing the land, and instead a daring attack is launched on Panama, where another weapon of mass-destruction has been built. The skillful CHUD Infiltrators engage in brutal hand to hand combat the defenders and all their land forces are obliterated at great cost. We're sure the Scribes will show the utmost respect to their ally and will not vulture everything while the Genarites are slowly dying for their uncaring masters.
Sadly, Warships are covering the nukes. All we can hope for the Global Revolution is that a Neo-Mayan fleet can do what rifles and Historical Materialism can't.....
Turn 15
La Trista Mar
The Scribes open with a nuclear strike in front of Venezula, eliminating a grand total of 4 units (=16 in value) at the cost of a level 3 nuke (36 in value).
The Scribes invest in a few more ships to forever eliminate the Neo-Mayan threat to the Caribbean trade, but after losing 8 ships to 3 for the Mayans, Neo-Mayan privateers can still raid and plunder the Scribe Battlegalleons!
The landing itself has a mediocre result given the resources invested, but well, I am there.
Neo-Mayans expedite the building of our last ships in the dockyard and prepare the newly formed Pacific Fleet to assault the Genar stronghold in Panama.
(Finally, while the game is coming to an end, and on a sea map, I make my first naval offensive.)
After liberating the city our newly appointed Governor gets busy at setting new rules which come into effect immediately:
Unfortunately, since building ships is so damn expensive, there's nothing we can do about the invasion happening in Venezuela.
Genar is still fighting a good fight - although the God of the Random Numbers is clearly on the side of the less-numerous armies this time, as Genarite army fails to take Belize at 7-to-1 odds, and then losses a few divisions in the second, 9-to-1 push, while also bleeding profusely somewhere in the Guatemalan jungle with 3 divisions lost on with 9-to-1 attack. But with enough armies amassed, we push the commies out of Belize, take the city over, and stream into the power vacuum of Yucatan, while reducing the presence on the US-Mexico border to build a new army for the push in Central America.
I think this is the end of my shenanigans, as Genar has wised up and started a logical campaign of reduction. With half of the production and the ruleset being what it is I don't think I can conjure some insane move, and all of Genar's production centers are far away. In retrospective, trying to get in the nuke game was a mistake, those 24 points I spent (and they were blown up the turn later) were a complete waste.
Also, what's the victory condition? There is a victory condition, right?
Turn 16
The Scribes scoff at the threat of nuclear annihiliation by nukes coming from Panama, and focus on the land war. Caracas is taken without significant losses, proving that it's almost pointless to leave more than one army anywhere:
Alas, the Scribes receive unexpected attrition in the rest of their conquest, and are stopped in front of, well, whatever city that is:
Nonetheless, the Scribes control almost 60% of the production point, and they try a new strategy to end the war: the Cease & Desist letter:
The Neo-Mayans are the going to be the first ones to answer:
After two years of hard working the vaults inside the Andes are completed, and just at the right time. The Scribes are moving swiftly across Venezuela, and our nuke in Panama is in a completely wrong place to be of any use in stopping the Scribe invasion. So the only thing left for the Neo-Mayan high council is to issue the order for all forces to withdraw into the vaults, thus ensuring the survival of our civilization.
When all the people are inside, the vault doors are closed and sealed.
It's a shame that a world ruled by the Scribes is a world where all sporting events are forbidden.
Comrade Inspector! Comrade Inspector! A message has arrived from the accursed Scribes!
Let me read. "Dear Land Owner: This organization represent Scribe LLC... it has come to our attention that you have been occupying unlawfully our landmass.... the consequences of your actions... we demand.... we are entitled.... we give you a period of ten (10) days to remove yourself from the landmass and in exchange our Client will guarantee an University Tenure for our leadership...."
What does that even means, Comrade Inspector?
It means they can get stuffed and they'll need to nuke us into oblivion. Let the Mayans hide in their bunkers and the Genarites cower in their ruins! The Wheels of History can't be stopped, as Chef Comrade Lenin rightfully said. If we lose now we'll rise again from the depths, sooner or later. Maaaaaaybe later. Also we'll be nuked before we comply to a C&D letter. Lawyers are even more morally objectionable than nuclear weaponry.
Well, if nothing else, that's clearly good news for all the universities that will be left standing after the Apocalypse is finished... 😉
...and we acknowledge that those lands could have belonged to the Neo-Mayas, but they don't, because we betrayed and nuked the Pagans. Amen!
I will never get used to that. Wait! Who are you?
I am KarbonKitty, the Genar Patriarch. I am part of your Executive Council now. Remember our treaty?
Ah yes, yes! I'll never get used to that either.
So, what's the agenda?
Well! With the war over and won, I would like to present the AAR that I finished writing and that I should publish shortly. Let me tell you that the Rating & Review section is spicy!
I read it already! I like the part where you nuked everyone!
I liked it, but I object to the characterisation of the Genar faction.
Objection expected and noted. If the rest of the Council is OK, I would like to publish it, with the Rating and Review, tomor....
Stop the presses! I bring terrible news!
We moved to occupy Panama... and the gates were closed! The UGSSR had occupied it! They haven't ceased and desisted!
The UGSSR? How is that possible? How could they have refused tenure?
... and then... and then... they said.... I am just the messager here!
E-A-T S-H-I-T.
For shame! Scribe Narwhal: Nuke them!
I am afraid we don't have any nuke in range. Best I can do is blow up Puerto Rico!
Wait! The UGSSR controls Puerto Rico?
No! they don't!
Why do you want to nuke it then?
I am just telling you the options! We blew up Havana when we controlled it and no one objected!
If we don't have the nukes... march immediately and take the city, Scribe Narwhal
We tried, but we can't! They have a warship patrolling the streets!
It's war then! Scribe Narwhal: Postpone the article, find another Spectrum game to review instead and crush the UGSSR
Oui-Oui, Grand Scribe!
Well, it's the race to occupy all those empty lands again!
Heh, still in the 28th century the political officers dream about achieving the title of Hero of the Soviet Union by replicating the outcome of the battle of Stalingrad.
And yet, for political officers it will be closer in the outcome to the Battle of Warsaw (1920).
Although I do not envy Scribe fighting the UI to place and move armies into all those territories... It's not great for that use case, to put it mildly.
Quote from Operative Lynx on 3 June 2024, 23h42Heh, still in the 28th century the political officers dream about achieving the title of Hero of the Soviet Union
It's actually the Order of The Underground Buffet. The UGSSR has its caloric priorities straight, more than its dubious politics.
The Scribe fleet dies in nuclear fire, the Genarite weapon atomizing dozens of battleships and hundreds of Scribes. That would make for fine discussion in the Scribe council, I presume. Sadly, their armies are relentless. A daring plan is however concocted (and cooked), an elite group of our best men will strike deeply into enemy territory and capture the Scribe Council, thus winning the war in a single stroke.
.... what do you mean they got lost and most of them got shot before entering Texas proper?
I legit planned some incredibly annoying moves for the Scribe, but c'mon, no one will enjoy me gaming a barely-coherent game. I tried to plant my banner in Texas one last time but alas, the RNG failed me. At least I got the fleet.
...and we acknowledge that those lands could have belonged to the Neo-Mayas, but they don't, because we betrayed and nuked the Pagans. Amen!
So what's the agenda for today?
Let me check. I prepared it myself:
A. Discussion on our recruitment effort
B. Discussion on the capture of Gualajara
C. Discussion on the capture of Panama
C.ii. About some event pertaining to a plurality of our ships
D. Discussion on the capture of Cali
E. Discussion about the rest of the war
There are a lot more items than usual!
Can we jump directly to C.ii? This one sounds interesting.
I am sorry. Before covering C item ii, we need to discuss C item i, and how we captured Panama valiantly, gaining a strategic footho...
As I understand, our ships were destroyed by a powerful nuke coming from Panama?
...
They must have been magnificent! Did you know that those nuclear missiles had been design by the Genar?
Are you applauding how efficiently our fleet was destroyed, KarbonKitty? Do you chuckle at the destruction of our Flagship the Estrella?
I am just saying that it's a pity that the UGSSR got their hands on those nukes. Those deadly, deadly nukes.
ANYWAY: let's move to point E already. We realized that the UGSSR might not be familiar about the notion of tenure, and we are not sure whether "E-A-T S-H-I-T" was really an insult as we first thought, given their culture. After our significant progresses on all fronts, we offered tenure-for peace a second time.
So no punishment for nuking us?
This time, we'll limit their choice to community colleges.
The Scribes send another offer! This time is not a C&D but a job offer in something called a "community college". We have no idea of what that is. Apparently if we surrendered earlier they offered to our "leaders" a place in their university system.
Fools! Don't they know that we avoid bourgeois institutions such as universities? Community colleges may be unknown to us, but we sure like the sound and taste of community. They will deeply regret their offer as we're schooled in the noble arts of obtaining Cultural Hegemony.
Are we surrendering?
No, we're keeping the war up in other forms. We need also consider the abject failure of Operation ERASURE. Don't worry, the march of the hungry proletariat can't be stopped.
The Scribe was apparently suffering heavily to keep playing, so I'll gladly concede. I'll write down my feelings for the game later, but .... they're amusingly enough less negative than my initial impressions. It's a complete mess, but I can understand why someone somewhere could have considered it acceptable.
Thanks for conceding. I believe you could have lasted for 6 more turns at least if you had played nasty (eg: send fleet in the bottom left corner, then split it in many small groups. Also occupy the mountains, etc).
My final opinion of the game is that... it is terrible.
First, there's the UI. Let's be honest, I think we all played at emulator speed x5. Now imagine playing as the game intended: moving at historical speed. Further imagine playing not on the Caribbean map with 50% water but on, say, the European map with 80% landmass and that much more units fighting around. I don't know how 80s Britons would accept that. Stiff upper lips definitely needed.
Then, there's the combat system. I GUESS you could play it as a bluffing game... except there were maybe close to 10 combats by turn in the endgame, so imagine, for each of those 10 combats you had both players trying to pick a number, with the first player trying to hide his hands as much as possible so the other player would not defend perfectly...
As for the strategic layer. It's stale. With a movement of 6, including in diagonals, and the capacity to build everywhere, there are very few strategic locations: you can't isolate an enemy pocket for instance, and you can build or bring reinforcements wherever you want in one turn. Once again we were blessed with the Caribbean map which was probably better from this point of view (because the islands made ships relevant, because ships can only be built in specific locations, and because Panama). As there is no strategic location, the game becomes purely about numbers, with the snowballing only stopped because of ever-shifting alliances. The game came to a relatively quick conclusion only because KarbonKitty remained on my side for probably longer than was his interest.
Let's talk about the nukes. Well, once again, we were blessed by the map, because they must be super tricky to use in a more normal map: either your nuke is long range and that's a HUGE investment for a tool that may only clear 9 tiles (if we assume 1 unit/tile, that's 36 points destroyed for the same price paid at range 3). Or your nuke is short-range, but because movement is quick and you can deploy anywhere, it is likely to be captured. Yet again, the Caribbean map offered one more layer of protection, making them worthwhile to use. Outside of my island launching pads, how many nukes in our games were used by their original builds?
Finally, the game has many irritating quirks, for instance, units always having the minimum movement points of the units on their tiles (even more fun: if you leave a tile fully, and then a new unit reoccupies the tile, its available movement points will drop to the one of the last unit that left the tile). It forces you to move your force quite unorganically (eg making sure their paths never cross). Another quirk is that you cannot take a city with armies if it is defended by at least one ship.
I feel the game could have been so much better with 2 changes:
- Max speed of units either 3 on land and 5 on sea (including armies). It would have made the naval aspect of the game so much more important
- Units can only be built in cities; alternatively, units built outside cities cost twice as much.
- Having done that, I would probably have increased the price of nukes to 16 by level, but that's just an extra.
It would have created a completely different dynamic, with nukes being key in mid-game to break the stalemate, armies being usually smallish to avoid losing them all, but regrouping before assaulting a city, and short-range nukes a valuable option in defence, but one that kills your economy forever. Alas, as it is, the game ranks as the second worst game I have played in multiplayer after Nebula (it's probably better than Time Lords, but Time Lords receive points for being insane).
Ah yes, the emulator speed. Now that I think about it playing this at speeds under 250% or 300% would have been miserable.
I can't exactly say I disagree with anything you say: the game has so many things that flat-out do not make sense or are terribly designed (from the insane starting location system to the utterly insane "balancing" of the first turn that guaranteed that I had a sensible disadvantage the entire game, a disadvantage I could simply not recoup).
But, if we make the game faster, rebuild the combat system with a non-insane system (maybe RNG with army size and terrain taken into consideration?) rebuild the deployment system, rebuild the naval combat and avoid "warship defending cities" syndrome, rebalance the nukes regarding cost and range.... I can see Apocalypse being a fun game. Also an entire different game by different developers.
Quote from The Wargaming Scribe on 5 June 2024, 23h33Outside of my island launching pads, how many nukes in our games were used by their original builds?
The only nuke I built was nuked and exploded by the Genarites. Everything else I captured from the Mayans or Genar. Building nuke when you're behind is counterproductive.
Quote from Dayyalu on 6 June 2024, 21h08
The game has so many things that flat-out do not make sense or are terribly designed (from the insane starting location system to the utterly insane "balancing" of the first turn that guaranteed that I had a sensible disadvantage the entire game, a disadvantage I could simply not recoup).
Strong disagree on that one. What puts you behind was assaulting Houston, which cost you 6 guys for a revenue of 9 that could be lost at an instant (and -9 revenue for an opponent you ultimately did not face and was at war with someone else). Using those 6 guys on yellow tiles would have given you 18 in revenue by turn, and made you much harder to push out.
I feel the deciding factor early game is how quickly each of us wrapped his head around the economy and the "stats" of this game and focused on expanding wide (as many territories as possible) rather than deep (the best cities).
The only nuke I built was nuked and exploded by the Genarites. Everything else I captured from the Mayans or Genar. Building nuke when you're behind is counterproductive.
Building nukes when you're ahead is also counter-productive. You can just trade in combat favourably.
The only nuke that I felt was worth it was the one I used to blow Miami + Nassau. I would have been better off with more boots on the ground for the others